Posts by jonathan dough

40

"My God and My Lord" Ps. 35:23 - Need OT version

by jonathan dough in

when thomas said "my lord and my god," he used the exact words that david used at psalm 35:23 with reference to god, writing, "awake, be vigilant in my defense, in my cause, my god and my lord," (rsv, nab, kjv and green's literal translation).

"lord" here is translated from the hebrew adonai used exclusively of god.

thomas would never have used these same words when addressing the risen christ if he were just a man.

jonathan dough

a

46

Hostility to God's "name"

by AwSnap in

i was given the brochure the divine name that will endure forever, and was pointed to page 20 which is entitled "hostility to god's name?".

it says that the word jehovah was originally in the hebrew scriptures but was taken out.

is this true?

jonathan dough

It says that the word Jehovah was originally in the Hebrew Scriptures but was taken out. Is this true? How could I find facts on this?

Narkissos is right. Even Green's Literal Translation has the tetragramaton throughout. I'm not sure about the Aleppo Codex but I believe it is in there also. Are you certain your brochure says it was taken out of all OT Hebrew texts? Some of them, sure, but not all of them.

And could you explain by what you mean by: "Also, it says that the name Jesus does not accurately represent the original form of God's Son, yet people are completely okay using that name (Jesus)."

42

Upcoming Study with a Bethel Brother

by PSacramento in

so, after a lengthy discussion with my mom on friday, she asked me ( again) to have a study with a bethel brother because the question i ask are too "above" her knowledge and she feels that only a well trained bethel brother can show me the "truth".. i voiced to her my issue:.

i love my mother, father and sister that are jw's and the last thing i want is to lose them, we had already drifted apart because of their new found faith ( my mom was first, about 8 years ago, then my older sister and just recently, last july 4th, my dad), i told her that if i have these study with a bethel brother i will, most likely, sya thing and state sources that may get me brnaded as an "apostate", i asked her, to be honest and truthful with me and to tell me that, if i get branded that and they are told, suggest to them, to stop dealing with me, would they?.

she said that no organization tells her who to deal with, even more so in regards to family.. i was not convinced, nevertheless i agreed and this wednesday will have my first study with him, first topic the mwt, my issue with certain translations ( such as romans 10:13, colossians and so forth) and the name "jehovha".. .

jonathan dough

Well, it has been 3 weeks since the last study and when I left He asked what question I had and I said I would like to ask him about 1914 and not only how they arrive at that date but HOW the arrive at the calculations for getting to and from that date, he said he would get that info and get back to me for our "next session".

This will break his back on 1914.

http://144000.110mb.com/144000/index.html

42

Upcoming Study with a Bethel Brother

by PSacramento in

so, after a lengthy discussion with my mom on friday, she asked me ( again) to have a study with a bethel brother because the question i ask are too "above" her knowledge and she feels that only a well trained bethel brother can show me the "truth".. i voiced to her my issue:.

i love my mother, father and sister that are jw's and the last thing i want is to lose them, we had already drifted apart because of their new found faith ( my mom was first, about 8 years ago, then my older sister and just recently, last july 4th, my dad), i told her that if i have these study with a bethel brother i will, most likely, sya thing and state sources that may get me brnaded as an "apostate", i asked her, to be honest and truthful with me and to tell me that, if i get branded that and they are told, suggest to them, to stop dealing with me, would they?.

she said that no organization tells her who to deal with, even more so in regards to family.. i was not convinced, nevertheless i agreed and this wednesday will have my first study with him, first topic the mwt, my issue with certain translations ( such as romans 10:13, colossians and so forth) and the name "jehovha".. .

jonathan dough

A will be voicing my concern about the "validity" of the name Jehovah, considering itis not the correct name, I will also voice my concern about the over use of the name in the NT.

In regards to the NWT I will voice my concern about the translations that tend to alter the original meaning of the verses, I will also ask why the change, and inconsistent one at that, of the menaing of "proskeno" (SP?) from worship when it applies to Jesus.

Any other suggestions?

Ask him why they changed Ps. 35:23 and if there are any NT manuscripts that use the tetragrammaton or however that is spelled.

148

Christians explain? Jews never believed in a Trinity even today so how/when did it start?

by Witness 007 in

jews for thousands of years have believed in their "one god" so i always wondered if in jesus time this was the view, how and when did the trinity start?

did jesus start it off?

are you saying jews were trinitarian?

jonathan dough

I was told that Salvation for a Christian is based on the belief and Faith that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that he dies for our sins and that he was ressurected and is at the right hand of God, that is the BASIS for salvation for a Christian.

Not complete because works plays a major role in salvation in the RCC. Some regard it as works based salvation.

148

Christians explain? Jews never believed in a Trinity even today so how/when did it start?

by Witness 007 in

jews for thousands of years have believed in their "one god" so i always wondered if in jesus time this was the view, how and when did the trinity start?

did jesus start it off?

are you saying jews were trinitarian?

jonathan dough

The entire idea of once saved always saved is ripe for interpretation as well. Fundamental to undertanding salvation and conducting ourselves, eh?

148

Christians explain? Jews never believed in a Trinity even today so how/when did it start?

by Witness 007 in

jews for thousands of years have believed in their "one god" so i always wondered if in jesus time this was the view, how and when did the trinity start?

did jesus start it off?

are you saying jews were trinitarian?

jonathan dough

John 1:1 makes it clear that Jesus is God, there is also ample statements like:

One with God, exact form of God, the fullness of God dwells in him, did not view equality with God as soemthing to hold on to, these are plainly stated in scripture and as such show that Jesus is, for all intents and purposes, God.

To you, but I know of a few million JWs who would take issue with you on John 1:1 (a god). What does "one"mean, how is "form" meant in the Greek language, what does "fullness" mean? Was he holding on to equality or trying to grasp for it as a man. Lots and lots of room for interpretation. Don't get me wrong, I agree with you, there still is a bit of work involved. Thank goodness for the good people at Strong and Vine's and the army of theologians who have helped us with interpretations throughout the ages.

148

Christians explain? Jews never believed in a Trinity even today so how/when did it start?

by Witness 007 in

jews for thousands of years have believed in their "one god" so i always wondered if in jesus time this was the view, how and when did the trinity start?

did jesus start it off?

are you saying jews were trinitarian?

jonathan dough

What is scripturla/biblical ie: what is plainly stated in the Bible, as an example Acts where Peter states that Salvation is through Jesus and that there is no other name under heaven in which we are saved.

Plenty of room for interpretation. What is meant by "through" or "name"? What does it mean to be "saved" and does that mean once saved always saved? Which Jesus are we talking about? The man or the God-man?

148

Christians explain? Jews never believed in a Trinity even today so how/when did it start?

by Witness 007 in

jews for thousands of years have believed in their "one god" so i always wondered if in jesus time this was the view, how and when did the trinity start?

did jesus start it off?

are you saying jews were trinitarian?

jonathan dough

And no, I do not view the doctrine of the Trinity as being from Satan, how can anything that brings people closer to God be from Satan?

I'm not accusing you of that and I'm sorry if I left that impression. It was a question to pose to your contacts, framed in the context of JWs. Nothing more.

What is based on interpretation of scripture ex: The Trinity.

To me salvation must be based on scriptural/biblical "evidence", where as the interpretive stuff helps us to understand the "intangiables" but one must still be careful NOT to go beyond what is plainlu stated in the bible.

You mean like whether Jesus was, and is, God? I don't see that as intangilble, but central to salvation, and given the many verses that address the issue, interpretation does seem to play a part. Just look at all of these proof texts:

http://www.144000.110mb.com/trinity/index-5.html#20

148

Christians explain? Jews never believed in a Trinity even today so how/when did it start?

by Witness 007 in

jews for thousands of years have believed in their "one god" so i always wondered if in jesus time this was the view, how and when did the trinity start?

did jesus start it off?

are you saying jews were trinitarian?

jonathan dough

As Peter stated in Acts and Paul states many times and so forth, about belief in Jesus being the only thing needed for salvation.

That is a whole other topic, and smacks of once save always saved. Peter and Paul said a lot of things about salvation which seems to have conditioned it, but that is beyond the scope of this thread.